David Moss wrote:
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> David Moss wrote:
>>> fasgnadh wrote in news:48830649$0$1024$afc38c87
>>> @news.optusnet.com.au:
>>>
>>>> I will tell you that the secrecy, the... I mean the obstruction that
>>>> I saw during my investigation was unparalleled in my entire career as
>>>> a DA here in Phoenix Arizona.
>>>
>>> [cut]
>>>
>>> Looks like standard corporate behaviour when threatened with
>>> potentially disastrous litigation to me.
>>
>> 'Standard corporate behaviour' includes cover-up of child .ual abuse
>> in your experience, Dave?
Clearly not. If a corporation deliberately moved a paedophile
beyond the reach of our legal processes, there would be uproar.
You wink at it.
If a corporation used coercion to silence witnesses (applied
the seal of the confession, which to a believer threatens
EXCOMMUNICATION!) they would be charged with perverting the
course of Justice.
You seem to be trying to support them in doing so. B^p
>> Sounds like you have worked with some
>> right Evil bastards!
>>
>> I think you are losing it on this one, dave...
>>
>> How many Corporations move incriminating evidence into the protection
>> of diplomatic imunity:
>>
>> "secret archives to where this type of material is to be
>> provided and not given to civil authorities no matter
>> what the circumstances.
>> We had information that there is an instruction from
>> the Nuncio, who is Ambassador status, to shift all this,
>> you know, incriminating type of information to him
>> because under our.. under the law we could not
>> subpoena that material because he would have protected
>> status as an Ambassador from the Vatican."
>
> How many have the option?
So you get my point! This is more like La Cosa Nostra than "standard
corporate behaviour when threatened with potentially disastrous
litigation"
pfffft!
> The shredder is generally the final resting place of incriminating
> corporate documents.
Looks like you concede my point, that you don't really have one:
>> Now if Exxon had diplomatic immunity, like the Vatican State,
>> you might have a point.
It would be better if you read and acknowledged what was written,
rather than snip it and represent it as your own. B^p
However:
>> But in one sense your observation is correct, the
>> Church's primary objectives are the love of money,
>> and they will act corruptly, and the will abandon
>> their mission ("Blessed are those who hunger and
>> thirst for Justice"/ "Whomsoever shall snare one
>> of the little ones..")
>>
>> "I think that that's really what the story is. Is that
>> the church.. the church's failure to acknowledge such
>> a serious problem. But more than that, it is not a
>> passiveness. It is a.. it was an openly obstructive
>> way of not allowing civil authorities to try to stop
>> the abuse within the church. I mean they fought us
>> every step of the way."
>>
I challenge any Catholic to read this and still try and
argue that OVER FOUR THOUSAND accusations of .ual abuse
by the clergy is a product of some plot by enemies of the
church, instead of a cry from the heart for JUSTICE, by
catholics from WITHIN the Church!
The BBC Panorama program, Crimen Sollicitationis:
http://tinyurl.com/55r25k
The transcript
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/5402928.stm
Watch the program and hear the testimony of Catholic monks
who resigned because they were being asked to DENY Justice
to the victims, to Catholic Judges describing the problem as
ENDEMIC, and the Catholic chairman of the National Review Board
resigning because of the systematic cover-up!
But the most heartbreaking is Donna Elza, whose 5 year old Grandson
was .d by Father Ta
"COLM O'GORMAN
I'm in Brazil, the largest Catholic country on the
planet, home to 125 million faithful. It may look
like paradise, but scratch beneath the surface and
you'll find extreme poverty, illiteracy, . tourism,
and enormous child protection concerns. The Catholic
church may have been forced to learn hard lessons in the
Western world, but is it applying those lessons here?
KENYON: Six years ago a new priest arrived in the
small rural community of Annapolis in Central Brazil.
His new congregation didn't know it, but Father Tarcisio
Tadeu Spricigo had been charged with child abuse by police
in Sao Paolo.
COLM: The priest was first accused of .ual abuse in 1991.
He was moved at least 4 times following that first
allegation, and continued to abuse in each parish to
which he was appointed. He finally ended up here in this
tiny, and very, very impoverished community.
The Bishop who appointed him to this parish knew that he
was facing charges of .ual abuse in Sao Paolo.
He has explained since that he felt, or believed,
that the priest had been cured. But he hadn't.
The abuse continued.
KENYON: The priest moved 3 doors away from Donna
Elza and her 5 year old grandson Warley. He offered
to give Warley guitar lessons.
ELZA DA SILVA
Early one Sunday morning he woke me up and said:
"Granny, I know how to make love". I asked him:
"What do you mean? You are so small, you're only 5,
what are you talking about?" And he said: "If I try
to tell Mummy and Daddy they will beat me, and I'm scared".
And I said: "They won't beat you, tell me what has
happened." And that's how I learned it was Father Tarcisio.
We let the boy take guitar lessons with him because
we thought he was in safe hands, with a good person,
with a person who speaks the word of God every day
in church. I trusted the Father because I have been
Catholic all my life, and I never expected that this
could have happened. When the kids accost him in the
streets they call him "the priests little wife" and
he feels so angry, so angry that he cries and cries.
He tells me often that he just wants to die.
KENYON: This was during the period when Cardinal
Ratzinger instructed all allegations of child abuse
to be sent to the Vatican. So if it knew about the
criminal charges against Father Tarcisio why did it
allow him to continue working as a priest in close
contact with young children?"
Untill there is an attempt to answer these
questions, openly and honestly, the Pope can
stick his hypocritical apologies up his Papal arse!
"COLM: We may be thousands of miles away from Rome,
but this place is directly linked to the Vatican.
What gets me is it's the same story every time and
every place. Bishops appoint priests, who they know
have abused children in the past, to new parishes
and new communities, and more abuse happens.
This boy was abused in 2002, think about that, 2002,
at exactly the same time as the scandals are kicking
off in Boston, in the United States, and in Ireland,
at exactly the same time that bishops and the Vatican
are giving us excuses for why it happened, and for
what they're going to do to put it right. At exactly
that time this boy is being .d here in Brazil.
So now this boy talks about wanting to die, he doesn't
want to stay alive any more. He can't handle it,
he's being bullied at school. They tell him that
he's the "priests little girl." And the church have
done nothing. No therapy, no support, no connection,
no outreach, nothing! I'm fed up of saying it's not okay.
(emotional) It's not okay."
This man, who had experience the same betrayal by
church authorities is not going to wave his arms and
chant at World Youth Day, he's not going to sleep out
and gaze dreamily at sonorous pontifications on a huge
rock stage.. he's with Jesus, fighting for those with
no voice. God Bless Him.
But this is what he is up against, groupmind, as
ugly as what we saw in Sydney when the victims were
turned away from the Feast and dismissed as cranky:
"KENYON: Despite evidence that the priest had already
abused a 13 year old boy in Sao Paolo, Donna Elza claims
she was pressured by both the church and the community
to drop the allegations over her 5 year old grandson.
ELZA: The church was angry with me, and people in
the church, people in the street were running.
They were running away from me. It felt like I was
excommunicated from my own community. But I wanted
them to believe, like I did, in my grandson.
COLM: That's the thing people don't understand.
This family didn't have much, but they had their faith.
Now they don't have that."
Mark 9:42
"And whosoever shall be a snare to one of the little
ones who believe in me, it were better for him if a
millstone were hung about his neck, and he cast
into the sea."
"ELZA: There's such a great sadness inside us.
(pause - struggling to retain composure but eyes
full of tears) I fear my boy will grow with that
sadness in his mind, the boy growing with problems
in his mind.
COLM: It looked like the priest might get away
with it again, and then this was found. It's his diary.
In it he details the kind of child that he targets, and
how to abuse them without getting caught. I'll read
you a section. Age: 7, 8, 9, 10. .: masculine.
Social condition: poor. Family condition: preferably
a son without a father, only a lonely mother or
a sister. Where to look: on the streets, in schools
and in families. How to attract them: guitar lessons,
choir, altar boy. Very important, ingratiate yourself
with the family. Possibilities: a boy who's affectionate,
calm, and is appreciative. Needy of a father, and has no
.ual scruples. My attitudes: see what the boy's like,
then ask the boy to give himself to me as payment for
receiving a present.
KENYON: Father Tarcisio's decades of abuse were finally
brought to an end. Not because of any action by Cardinal
Ratzinger's Vatican office, but by the police.
Last year Father Tarcisio was jailed for 15 years."
Why should those who knew he was a paedophile, yet
moved him from parish to parish, in contact with
children who became his victims, escape Justice?
Just because they are rich and powerful!?!!!
---------
Crimen Sollicitationis:
http://tinyurl.com/55r25k
---------
###########################################
#
# "I don't see in the case of the Roman Catholic
# faith much hope in Rome at all. The last Pope
# was not good on this; the current Pope is not
# good with this. They have a terrible track record,
# and I don't see any change. And I don't see anybody
# holding accountable the bishops who covered this
# up all these years, that's the bottom line.
# If you don't hold the people in charge accountability,
# what makes you think anything will ever change.
# It doesn't help that you get rid of a bad priest,
# what about the bishop, such as Cardinal Law,
# who knew about it, covered it, in hundreds of
# cases, and now has a premier position in Rome.
# I mean what does that say? There is no accountability
# for the bishop, with the possible exception if
# the bishop is an offender, he might get removed,
# but not if he just covers up. Well, sorry, that's
# not good enough."
#
# -Gary Schoener Clinical psychologist and
# Executive Director of a .ual Abuse support
# Centre in the U.S. where he has been involved
# involved in some of the the largest cases of
# .ual abuse which have been uncovered,
# and where the problem is being confronted.
#
# ".ual Abuse in Religious Contexts"
# ABC 29/7/2008
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/spiritofthings/stories/2008/2284314.htm#transcript
#
#######################################
###########################################
# Rachael Kohn: Do you think the church is likely
# to screen their clergy as much as they should
# in these days when fewer and fewer clergy are
# about to man the churches?
#
# Gary Schoener: Well the answer is Yes and No.
# There's much better screening tools and there's
# more screening going on. But if you look at the
# Roman Catholic faith, and that's the main one
# that's I think got a problem with person power,
# as soon as you don't have female clergy you're
# in trouble because most of the other faith groups
# without female clergy, would not have enough pastors,
# so that's a problem. What we have seen is that
# they're desperate for people to come into seminaries,
# and they will take people they would have said No to
# 15 years ago.
#######################################
-----------
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