HD wrote:
> "B J Foster" wrote in message
> news:g9788f$439$1@aioe.org...
>> HD wrote:
>>> "B J Foster" wrote in message
>>> news:g973dd$foq$1@aioe.org...
>>>> HD wrote:
>>>>> "B J Foster" wrote in message
>>>>> news:g94kfd$lce$1@aioe.org...
>>>>>> Cruizin wrote:
>>>>>>> "David Moss" wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:Xns9B07E1F962518q0320811mailconnectu@61.9.191.5...
>>>>>>>> "Cruizin" wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:6%atk.31754$IK1.3181@news-server.bigpond.net.au:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any other organisation that was so riddled with paedophiles,
>>>>>>>>> protects
>>>>>>>>> paedophiles from prosecution, and generally condones paedophiles
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> be closed down.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why is the catholic church so different?
>>>>>>>> Size.
>>>>>>>> If you group together a sufficient number of people under one name
>>>>>>>> chances
>>>>>>>> are you will find paedophiles among them. If you scrutinise the
>>>>>>>> number of
>>>>>>>> people who call themselves Catholic it is statistically ivevitable
>>>>>>>> you will
>>>>>>>> find paedophiles among them. Sad but true.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The problem seems to lie with the catholic priesthood, not catholics
>>>>>>> in general - I just wonder what say BHP would do if it found that a
>>>>>>> group of paedophiles was operating within its midst. Would they just
>>>>>>> move the individuals concerned to other sites?
>>>>>> More to the point, what if a commercial child-care company (e.g. ABC
>>>>>> learning centres) discovered a paedophile ring in their midst?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then destroy all the records and demonise the complainants? I dont
>>>>>>> think so. If found out we would howl and scream until the directors
>>>>>>> and managers were behind bars and the company broken up. Why not the
>>>>>>> same for the catholic church - its just another business - one of the
>>>>>>> oldest maybe, but still only selling the idea of eternal life or
>>>>>>> eternal damnation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The risk for the rest of us (non catholics) is that when we come into
>>>>>>> contact with catholics we dont know if they are potential or current
>>>>>>> paedophiles (there is only 2 choices for catholics). Most paedophiles
>>>>>>> were molested as children, and then perpetuate the crime against
>>>>>>> children when they reach adulthood. Closing down or reforming the
>>>>>>> catholic church would go a long way of breaking the cycle of
>>>>>>> paedophilia.
>>>>>> It's about 5%, so about every 20th priest that you meet will be a
>>>>>> paedophile. Not enough to brand the whole organisation but certainly
>>>>>> enough to warrant serious precautions, like never leaving children
>>>>>> alone with a priest and closely questioning any new priest in your
>>>>>> parish.
>>>>>> I would certainly avoid sending my kids to a catholic school. Consider
>>>>>> that in a school with (say) 10 staff, the probability of encountering
>>>>>> a paedophile is 40%. With 20 staff, it increases to 64%
>>>>> Collectively Catholic schools have over 20.000 staff.
>>>>> What Percentage are paedophiles?
>>>> That's not the point. Kids will not encounter the 20,000 staff but they
>>>> will most likely encounter every staff member at a particular school.
>>>>
>>>> The point is this: If probability of one staff member being a paedophile
>>>> is 5% and the school has 20 staff members then the probability of at
>>>> least one being a paedophile is 64%. Or to put it another way, kids at 2
>>>> out of 3 Catholic schools will encounter a paedophile.
>>>>
>>>> This is a conservative estimate because the offenders will in fact go
>>>> out of their way to seek encounters. Estimates of the number of victims
>>>> per offender range from 50 to 250.
>>>>
>>>>> Since Catholic schools are not run by priests, how does that pervert
>>>>> your statistics?
>>>>>
>>>> True. I have no data on what percentage of Catholic teachers are
>>>> paedophiles.
>>> But that didn't stop you talking about and seeking out Catholic Schools.
>>> Being operted by ordinary, mostly married and not always Catholic
>>> teachers, why would Catholic schools be any different from State schools?
>>>
>> Okay, one thing at a time.
>> 1. Not sure what you mean by 'ordinary, mostly married'.
>> The theory of a link between celibacy and paedophilia has been debunked
>> (there are just as many paedophiles in the Anglican church)
>
> You live in the past.
> Hardly any teachers in Catholic schools are brothers or priests.
"POLICE are investigating claims that up to 40 boys were .ually abused
over seven years by priests and teachers in an exclusive private school.
...
A former priest at the school has been charged with 33 counts, a former
teacher has already been convicted of several offences and two other
teachers are under investigation".
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21498,24248942-948,00.html
>
>> 2. 'Not always Catholic teachers'?
>> False. To join a Catholic school you need to be accredited - that's code
>> for Catholic.
>
> False, My son, in a Catholic school has several teachers (Male and Female)
> who are not Catholics.
>
>
>> from the CEO: "Primary teachers in Catholic schools usually teach
>> Religious Education, and need to be accredited to do so".
>
> False, Religious Education is a subject and is being thought as a subject. A
> Maths teacher doesn't teach Religious education.
I am quoting the employment terms of the CEO (Catholic Education
Office), Sydney
*All* teacher employees need to be accredited regardless of what subject
they teach.
Three job ads chosen at random:
"Please send curriculum vitae nominating 3 referees (present employer,
past employer and Parish Priest)"
"Essential Criteria: A knowledge of and commitment to the Mission of the
Catholic School"
"ESSENTIAL CRITERIA
* An understanding of, and commitment to the Mission of the Catholic School"
>
>> 3. Why would Catholic schools be different?
>> Well they wouldn't be different to (say) Anglican schools - the evidence
>> is that the percentage of paedophile priests is about the same.
>
> There are no bloody priests in Catholic Schools. Don't you get it?
> They haven't even got enough priests for the churches.
"Dubbo Catholic priest Father Paul Devitt yesterday spoke in support of
St Stanislaus’ College at Bathurst as police broadened an investigation
into alleged .ual assaults at the prestigious boarding school 30 years
ago.
A 65-year-old former priest has been charged with 33 counts of .ual
assault and gross acts of indecency on five juveniles, aged between 10
and 18.
The man has faced court and is scheduled to reappear next month. Since
then, more people have come forward alleging similar assaults by a
paedophile ring comprising priests *and* teachers".
http://dubbo.yourguide.com.au/news/local/news/general/investigation-into-.ual-assault-claims-broadens/1256358.aspx
>
>
>> 4. Why would *religious* schools be different?
>> I have no data on this, however:
>> a) Paedophiles tend to seek out kids, so the proportion *will* be higher
>> amongst teachers that the general population
>
> True and that applies to all schools.
Does it?
Public schools do not protect offending priests, forgive them and
transfer them to another diocese.
>
>
>> b) The Catholic church has a history of trying to sweep the problem under
>> the carpet (unlike State public schools) which tends to create a more
>> paedophile-friendly environment - this the proportion will be higher
>
> Ancient History.
I certainly hope so. As of when?
>
>>>>>> Apart from the fact that most schools would have about ....20....
>>>>>> staff there's the threat of brainwashing
>>>>> Please explain.
>>>>>
>>>> From the CEO:
>>>> "Our Mission...
>>>> ...imparting Catholic beliefs, values, practices and traditions within a
>>>> faith-filled community"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Let's be clear, I am 99.9% positive about those beliefs and values. It
>>>> doesn't change the fact the purpose of the Catholic education system is
>>>> to *evangelise* Catholic beliefs.
>>> Not completely true.
>>> Most Catholic schools were started by the Irish Brothers whose first
>>> priority it was to
>>> offer a good education to any child. Unlike many other private schools
>>> many kids of poor parents had their education fee reduced or waived.
>> I am quoting from the CEO's *current* mission.
>>
>> Be serious, of *course* the church's mission is to 'teach' Catholicism. I
>> think that's a good thing - just so long as you're aware that it's a
>> belief not a science
>
> Well, you are wrong about that, but it is a different Subject.
Be serious, why did the Catholic *church* decide to operate schools?
>
>>>> Responsible parents will neutralise that brainwashing by teaching their
>>>> kids to seek out and discover alternative belief systems.
>>> It is a paradox to say that a responsible parent would would teach their
>>> kids to seek something they themselves consider false and immoral.
>> It doesn't follow that if you believe in Catholicism then alternatives are
>> "false and immoral".
>
> The whole of the last year--grade 11--of my son's religious education was
> taken up with
> the believes of Muslims, Hindus and Buddists.
>
Why did you imply that seeking out "alternative belief systems" was
"false and immoral"?
>
>>
>>> Would John Howard tell his kids to join the Communist Party?
>>>
>> Probably. He's a prescriptive idiot who would be unlikely to teach them to
>> think for themselves.
>>
>> Plus he's the highest taxing PM in Australia's history. That makes him the
>> closest thing to communism that we've ever had.
>
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