Deadrat wrote:
> "Reality_Check©" wrote in
> news:6l0frmF9rk3sU1@mid.individual.net:
>
>> Deadrat wrote:
>>> "Bill Bonde { ''Free OJ, no more time for him than the guy who
>>> brought the gun'' )" wrote in
>>> news:48EACEF9.1501C9A1@yahoo.co.uk:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bill Bonde { ''Free OJ, no more time for him than the guy who
>>>>> brought the gun'' )" wrote in
>>>>> news:48EAA8E7.6C870B52 @yahoo.co.uk:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mitchell Holman wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Bill Bonde { ''Free OJ, no more time for him than the guy who
>>>>>>> brought the gun'' )" wrote in
>>>>>>> news:48EA6D16.98FD3D12@yahoo.co.uk:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John Rennie wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Punishment is supposed
>>>>>>>>> to be useful for those that live. It is supposed to teach
>>>>>>>>> them not
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> transgress again or they'll get punished again. But as I
>>>>>>>>> posted above I don't take a moral stand on capital punishment
>>>>>>>>> - I'm a pragmatic abolitionist. I think it's antique and it
>>>>>>>>> places the US
>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the bottom rung of so called civilised countries as well as
>>>>>>>>> being a great waste of money.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think you've addressed how it does give another level
>>>>>>>> of punishment which would discourage people from killing all
>>>>>>>> the witnesses.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Post your proof that the DP "discourages people
>>>>>>> from killing all the witnesses"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's pure logic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just like astrology.
>>>>>
>>>> You mean astronomy.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> If there is nothing worse that can happen to you
>>>>>> beyond life in lockup and what you've already done warrants life
>>>>>> in lockup, why not do whatever you can to minimize getting
>>>>>> caught, why not kill all the witnesses and burn down the hotel?
>>>>>
>>>>> By your "logic" executing states would have lower
>>>>> murder rates than those that don't. Trouble is, just
>>>>> the opposite is true.
>>>>>
>>>>> Facts one, Bonde zero.
>>>>>
>>>> You always claim victory even though you haven't won. I didn't
>>>> claim that states that have the death penalty have lower murder
>>>> rates. I actually said it was far too complicated for that. But
>>>> plainly if you have another punishment beyond just life in prison,
>>>> you can motivate people who have committed crimes that would give
>>>> them life not to go further. If you can't see that, I cannot help
>>>> you.
>>>
>>> "Plainly" if *you* were contemplating a capital crime, then the
>>> thought of a potential death penalty would motivate you.
>>
>> How'd that work "motivating" Timothy McVeigh, eh?
>>
>>> People are generally not in a logically contemplative state of mind
>>> when they commit murder.
>
> Perhaps I should have said when they are alleged to have committed
> illegal homicide. The law recognizes numerous states of mind that are
> exculpatory or mitigative. I've read about several studies of urban
> violence that concluded that gang members don't really believe they'll
> live past their mid-twenties. Fanatics like Timothy McVeigh put their
> cause ahead of their lives. And so on.
>
> The belief in the death penalty as a deterrent must rest on an
> aritcle of faith: that there are many people who would kill were it
> not for the threat of retributive death. Unprovable, of course.
Makes it hard to get frontline infantry up out of their foxholes, eh?
>
>> You got any evidence, whatsoever, for this assertion?
>>
>>> If you can't see that, then there's no help for you at all.
>>
>> If you can't even provide a logical argument that death is a
>> "penalty" compared to Life without Parole locked in a cage, every
>> minute of every day of every week of every month of every year of
>> every decade for the rest of your life, then your argument lacks
>> cohesion.
>
> If it generally weren't considered a penalty, no one would appeal
> death sentences.
You sound as ignorant as Kent Wills with that fallacious assertion and
bogus conclusion. And even a dead rat should know that appeals
are *mandatory* in those cases.
You think that 800,000 Amerikans who attempt suicide
every year, and the 30,000 who succeed, are trying to
increase their pain and suffering ?
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