On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:55:40 GMT, Clough wrote:
>On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 08:32:43 +0000, Ewan Scott
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 17:22:00 GMT, Clough wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 17:04:19 +0000, Ewan Scott
>>> wrote:
>
>>>>Anyway, let us hope that the development of muslim Scout Groups is
>>>>ultimately a positive move. I wonder though, would we be having this
>>>>same discussion if the Scout Group being created were Polish, or
>>>>Albanian, or Serbian, or Chinese?
>
>>>The last four you mention are nationalities.
>
>>>The first one you mention is a religion. An ideology.
>
>>>There is a difference.
>
>>Nah, not a lot.
>
>There is more difference than you might think.
I doubt that there is for many fundamentalists :-)
>>Everyone in the world (give or take a few) identifies themselves by
>>nationality - for probably 99.999% that is an accident of birth.
>
>>For those who identify themselves by their religion also, that too is,
>>for the vast majority, exactly the same accident of birth.
>
>>In both cases there will be people who convert.
>
>>Nationality is as much an ideology as religion.
>
>The big difference is that religion makes a metaphysical statement
>about the nature of reality. Religion is committment to a set of
>abstract beliefs, a doctrine, in a way which nationality is not.
And nationality is not an abstract idea?
Grandparents immigrate from Ireland, Parents may have been born in
Ireland but brought up in the UK, their children are brought up in the
UK. Their bloodline hasn't changed but they are British by birth
purely on the basis of where they were born. Their cousins parents
went home to Dublin to have their children born, but returned after
registration to the UK, their cousins are Irish ..
I would like to consider myself a Scot, a Celt in particular - but as
far as I am aware my antecedents came from both the Isles and the
Borders, and Ulster, probably by way of Central Scotland.
I have no way of knowing anything prior to about 1790-ish, but I'd
make a guess that somewhere in there will be Scandanavian bloodlines,
English - so Anglo Saxon, Norman, probably Danish and Roman (who were
about as culturaly diverse as is possible.
So, ultimately my nationality is as abstract as any religious belief,
surely? But I know what you mean.
Ewan Scott
>At least it is for people who take religion seriously. There are
>probably those who haven't a clue about what their religion teaches
>but regards themselves as Church of England or Presbyterian or
>whatever much as they might regard themselves as Englishmen or Scots
>or something and without ever giving it a thought.
>
>Clough |